Talk:Relics (episode)
Five ships named Enterprise The main page says it is an error that the Enterprise computers has said there are 5 ships named Enterprise. But this error may not be an error at all. If my memory serves me didn't the computer say there are 5 Federation ships named Enterprise? If it did then not even Enterprise conflicts (As much as I hate to admit the lack of conflict with Enterprise), if it didn't say Federation ships, then it is an error, but a foot note should be added to state that if it was only counting Federation ships it was not in error. I also don't like the structure of that part of the page, it should be separated into two points, maybe under the heading of conflicts. --TOSrules 02:28, 6 May 2005 (UTC) :Agreed, I believe the actual computer dialogue states that "there have been five Federation ships with that name," similar to 's line that the 1701-D is the "fifth starship to bear the name USS Enterprise." -- SmokeDetector47 // ''talk'' 02:32, 6 May 2005 (UTC) In the Enterprise episode Regeneration, we learn that not only is the crew of the Enterprise E completely incompetent in collecting future technology to avoid polluting the time line, but before Cochrane left Earth, he blabbed about what happened in First Contact. Maybe the NX-01 being named Enterprise was a result of First Contact, Cochrane named the ship after the Enterprise E. Effect before cause.– Neotechni 08:24, June 22, 2010 (UTC) Well, it wouldn't have been Cochrane naming the ship as he was gone for decades already I do believe. But you're right about the Enterprise crew not making sure all the pieces of the Borg ship were gone. That is pretty odd. And as I recall, although Cochrane blabbed about the Borg, no one believed him and he eventually retracted his statements. But I can imagine Temporal Investigations being all over Picard and crew for revealing the future as much as they did, not to mention the participating in the historical event. leandar 14:35, July 27, 2010 (UTC) Rewatch the first ep of Enterprise, Cochrane was present– 18:03, August 14, 2010 (UTC) ::Um...no he wasn't. That was a recording.--31dot 18:06, August 14, 2010 (UTC) Cleanup Can I ask who tidied up some of the story for this article? I really appreciate it - the changes make it read better now. --Scimitar 14:30, 12 Apr 2005 (EDT) It was Defiant. He's great with episode summaries. -- Rebelstrike2005 14:33, 12 Apr 2005 (EDT) Scotch I should note that Scotty was correct in observing how replicated "Scotch" is not actual Scotch. The genuine article by definition is always distilled in Scotland. Quotation marks qualifying the word "real" in this article, as pertaining to Scotch, imply otherwise. --Fenian 10:35, 2 Oct 2005 (UTC) Featured Article Votes (April 17th, 2005) * -- self-nomination, I know that I wrote the bulk of this article but I think that it deserves some recognition. It covers pretty much all of the points from the episode and has some good background information with pictures fitting the episode. --Scimitar 20:09, 10 Apr 2005 (EDT) ** Support. The inclusion of a link to the actual theory behind the Dyson Sphere, and various inconsistancies pointed out make this article better than others. zsingaya 11:20, 11 Apr 2005 (EDT) ** Support. Good background information, nitpicks and quotes. --Defiant | ''Talk'' 03:01, 12 Apr 2005 (EDT) ** Support. --Gvsualan 19:18, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC) Possible Inconsistency Is it my imagination, or were La Forge and Scott beamed off the second ship while it's shields were raised, and holding the doors open? --WanderingHermit 21:01, 27 Jul 2006 (UTC) :Your right, but it may not be an inconsistancy. In Voyager, beaming thru shields seems quite common. Combine that with the fact the the Jenolan was a 75 year old ship, its shield technology may have been primitive enough for 24th century transporters to beam thru. --OuroborosCobra talk 21:05, 27 July 2006 (UTC) ::Yes that may be true or it is also a possibility that La Forge transmitted the shield frequency of the Jenolan so that they could keep there shields up while being transported. Tuvok of 9 00:09, 16 December 2006 (UTC) :::According to the transporter article, O'Brien perfected a method of beaming through the "EM windows" created during a shield's normal rotation of frequencies. --Skyler 20:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC) ::::Yes, it's a goof. It was acknowledged in the TNG Companion that they made a mistake but they didn't catch it until after the episode aired and of course at that point, it was too late. – leandar 16:57, 20 June 2007 (UTC) :::::I have a bit of an issue with calling this an "inconsistency", even if the show's production staff does. If you watch the episode, at the moment when the Enterprise is barreling toward the Jenolen, you can see the crackle of the shield bubble because it's falling apart. It stands to reason that people can be beamed through those shields, since they're obviously not completely stable. 15:46, April 10, 2013 (UTC) Scotty and Guinan in generations on the enterprise b did scott see talk or meet guinan or vice versa just wondering mchenry :I'm fairly certain there was no on-screen indication of any such meeting. If I remember correctly the only person Guinan was shown to have had any interaction with was Chekov. I don't believe the novelisation had any more to her time in the 23rd century either. - Avron 12:16, 30 August 2006 (UTC) ::I've just seen both Relics and Generations and I can confirm Scotty and Guinan never met each other... on screen, of course. Initially I believed they met in Relics and was gonna add that to the article, but the shadow of a doubt made me rewatch the episode. The confusion probably occured because Scotty had been drinking Guinan's whiskey at the bar. Scotty doesn't acknowledge Worf Near the end of the episode, they give Scotty a shuttle and much of the crew is there to send him off. Picard shakes his hand, he kisses Troi on the cheek, etc. but he just walks away from Worf. I thought this was awkward, is it just not tradition for Klingons? :First, this belongs at Talk:Relics (episode). Second, Scotty does acknowledge Worf, but instead of saying anything he just stares at him. This is because Scotty, a product of the 23rd century, finds the Klingon's presence disconcerting and is definitely not used to seeing a Klingon serving in Starfleet. --From Andoria with Love 10:38, 16 May 2007 (UTC) ::He prolly don't know he's a Klingon, what with the cranial ridges. 16:26, 16 March 2008 (UTC) :::Except that Scotty saw cranial ridged Klingons in Star Trek III, V, and VI. --OuroborosCobra talk 16:31, 16 March 2008 (UTC) :And exactly what part of "Scotty does acknowledge Worf" wasn't understood? :P --From Andoria with Love 01:35, 17 March 2008 (UTC) Warp Core Offline There's a scene where Scotty is talking to Geordi about phase locking something while standing at the center console in engineering. He presses a button that causes an alarm to go off, and Geordi angrily slams his fist down on the table. An officer working in the background reports that "the warp core can be restarted in 10 minutes." Now, Scotty couldn't have pressed something that took the warp core offline, because if you look behind him during that scene, you can clearly see that the core is not pulsing. Also, Geordi is supposed to be working on a survey of the Dyson sphere, so why would he have the warp core offline? In addition, scenes of the outside of the Enterprise clearly show the nacelles lit up blue. If the warp core was offline, plasma would not be flowing to the nacelles, so they would be dark. --Davisn456 02:49, 17 September 2007 (UTC) :For all we know, it was offline for a 15 minute maintenance cycle, and we never saw outside during the cycle. --OuroborosCobra talk 03:31, 17 September 2007 (UTC) ::Agreed, the warp core was offline in order to re-calibrate the aft sensors. Geordi told one of his engineers to take the warp core offline prior to the scene where Scotty sets off the alarm. Ron Moore quote source? What was the source of the Ron Moore quote at the bottom of the "Relics" Page concerning what the fans think about the apparent contradiction between "Relics" and "Generations" and Scotty's line about Kirk? Scotty's Costume makes him look like Han Solo I've got no idea if this is a wild shot in the dark, but it struck me whilst watching this episode how very similar Scotty's costume is to Han Solo. White shirt, black vest, and black pants with the yellow stripe running down the side. ("Corellian Bloodstripes" in Star Wars lore.) Does anybody know if this is just a coincidence, or is it perhaps some sort of homage? I'm not really familiar with TOS outside of the films, so I apologize if this is obviously wrong. =P Linkskywalker 01:11, 6 October 2008 (UTC) :There's another element in this episode that also strikingly evokes Star Wars. When Enterprise narrowly escapes, it looks just like Han Solo's ship escaping through the asteroid worm's mouth as it closes. It all would seem to me to suggest more than coincidence, but without any citable evidence, we won't note these. --TribbleFurSuit 16:14, 9 October 2008 (UTC) ::There's no mention of any Star Wars homage in either the Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion or Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages, which both have several pages of notes on this episode. Of course, another source could always turn up.– Cleanse 04:35, 10 October 2008 (UTC) Picard's Mention of the Constitution-class ship in the Fleet Musuem The following was in the article. Picard notes that a Constitution-class starship is present in the Fleet Museum. Given that the USS Enterprise-A was decommissioned following Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, it is possible that the ship Picard was referring to is the Enterprise, although, there is no evidence to suggest one way or the other. I removed this reference, and my edit was undone. The original Constitution-class ship was retrofitted in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. The ship was destroyed in Star Trek 3. The Enterprise-A was not a Constitution-class ship. So the Constitution-class ship in the Fleet Museum cannot be the original ship due to the fact that the original ship was retrofitted (and the class renamed) and it was destroyed in Star Trek 3. Drakkenfyre 03:26, 12 January 2009 (UTC) :You are incorrect. While the original Enterprise was retrofitted in TMP, it remained itself a Constitution class vessel. The Enterprise-A was also, therefore, a Constitution class vessel. This is canon, as seen in Scotty's technical documents he was reading in Star Trek VI. --OuroborosCobra talk 03:31, 12 January 2009 (UTC) Scotty recreates the Enterprise NCC-1701 bridge on the Holodeck. Picard joins him. He recognizes the bridge. He mentions it's a Constitution-class ship. He says they have one in the Fleet Museum. The note in the article suggested it could be the Enterprise-A. The Enterprise-A is not a Constitution-class ship. The entire classification of the retrofitted ship and the rest of the ships of the line has been a line of debate for years, and even on this Wiki. The only Enterprise which was a Constitution-class ship was the original Enterprise. The original Enterprise was retrofitted in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. It was then destroyed in Star Trek 3. Therefore the note cannot be correct in any way as he was referring to a Constitution-class ship. It was not the Enterprise-A. Thus, it is incorrect and should not be included in the article. Drakkenfyre 03:33, 12 January 2009 (UTC) ::It's all speculation anyway since it wasn't mentioned exactly what ship was in the museum...so it should be removed on that alone. — Morder 03:37, 12 January 2009 (UTC) :Again, you are wrong, and all debate on this was settled in Star Trek VI when the technical documents designated this updated configuration as still a Constitution class. Once those images were shown on Memory Alpha, that debate was settled on this wiki as well. If fans want to continue to argue among themselves, that's fine, but isn't canon. We are cataloging canon here, not fan arguments. Canon has made this very clear. Now if Morder wants to remove it on different grounds, that is fine, but the argument that the "-A" wasn't a Connie is absolutely incorrect and in violation of canon. --OuroborosCobra talk 03:38, 12 January 2009 (UTC) ::::My only argument would is the fact that they were on a bridge configuration as seen throughout TOS. This to me, would suggest that there is a starship in that configuration in the fleet museum, but it might not really be evidence in it's own right to that end. --Terran Officer 04:12, 12 January 2009 (UTC) :::::A.) Yes, the Enterprise-A was a Constitution-class starship, or more accurately, a Constitution-class refit. B.) Since it wasn't suggested at all that the Enterprise-A was the Constitution-class starship Picard was talking about, and since he was talking about a pre-refit bridge anyway, it stands to reason that the note is not only speculative but also, in all likelihood, incorrect. Wrong or not, it is speculation and really has no place on this wiki, as I believe Morder pointed out above. --From Andoria with Love 04:18, 12 January 2009 (UTC) That's another point I wanted to make. Picard recognized the bridge design as the original Constitution-class. Had he been been referring to the refit-class, he probably would have mentioned it. Drakkenfyre 20:22, 12 January 2009 (UTC) ::::::When I see a new model of a car that's a "refit" of the older ones, I don't go "Hey, look at that, it's a Taurus refit-class!" I say "Hey, look at that, it's a Taurus." -- sulfur 20:37, 12 January 2009 (UTC) Could we be thinking about the USS Republic here? To our fellow Trekkers: Data's Calabash here...no one here had even thought about the possibility of Jean-Luc seeing the ''USS Republic''...although only non-canon sources have made the USS Republic, NCC-1371, out to be a Constitution-class Federation starship, the possibility exists that Jean-Luc could have seen such a ship with that name in the "Starfleet Museum", after it could have been retired from Starfleet Academy training duties. And, to challenge the Academy cadets, it COULD have had the type of bridge that Kirk's 1701 had to start with...or have been retrofitted with an older bridge from spare parts for museum display purposes, had the Republic been refit to the exact same standards, for Academy training later in its own career, as the entire NCC-1701 had been refit to for the events dramatized in STMP, just in time for the 1701's encounter with Vejur. "Just an idea", that's all, but a plausible one... Data's Calabash... "I believe that pipe smoking contributes to a somewhat calm and objective judgment in all human affairs." -- Albert Einstein, 1950"Data's Calabash 21:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC) :Why is a ship that we don't even know to be in the museum or to even be canonically a Constitution class more likely? --OuroborosCobra talk 22:01, 12 January 2009 (UTC) ::It's equally possible it could be the USS George Bush or the USS Barack Obama. Purely speculation, as there is no evidence what ship it was.--31dot 00:28, 13 January 2009 (UTC) :::I highly doubt it would be the USS George Bush. Unless we're talking about an alternate timeline. :) --From Andoria with Love 10:46, 16 January 2009 (UTC) ::::Oh, I don't know, GWB came this close to having something awesome named for him in real life. --TribbleFurSuit 16:22, 16 January 2009 (UTC) ::::: Somebody just lay some tread down for the ship Picard noted here and get it over with already... --Alan 16:29, 16 January 2009 (UTC) Egress So, there's an entrance to the sphere, but no exit? WHy couldn't the Enterprise just cruise on up to the opening from inside the sphere - wouldn't it open? Roygbiv666 00:47, 19 April 2009 (UTC) Speculation :*''Being in a transporter buffer for so long could easily have a deleterious effect on Scotty's memory or it could be argued that Scotty knew how many times Kirk had defied death before and may have been referring to that. It also could be theorized that Scotty goes back into the past at some point after the events depicted in "Relics". In actuality, the TNG writers had no idea that Kirk's character was going to be killed off later on in a film partially set before this episode.'' Speculation in there, unneeded. — Morder 08:22, 5 June 2009 (UTC) :Removed the following- needs proof such a reference was deliberately similar. In this episode Scotty was driving starships while La Forge's great-grandfather was in diapers. In Kirk was saving the galaxy while Picard's grandfather was in diapers, a reference to this episode. --31dot 19:14, November 5, 2009 (UTC) Ironic quote When STNG was being started-they had James doohan guest star on some talk show-said that he wouldn't guest star cause he'd be 120 years old{!} Yet read the quote on "Relics"-hes not 120 he is 147! : What's the point? Timelines hadn't been established, scripts hadn't been written and checks hadn't been signed.... --Alan 13:17, January 15, 2010 (UTC) Knight Rider When the Knight Rider 2000 Movie they had a joking reference to Doohan as a "suspect" who'd starred in 10 Star Trek Movies. To date there have been 11 movies + 1 planned for 2012-in fact he starred in the first seven..... : Again, what's your point? That was 10 years ago, and for that matter he's been in 8 films. --Alan 13:17, January 15, 2010 (UTC) Removed removed the following: * "According to common belief there is an alleged continuity error when the computer responds to Scotty's holodeck request by saying "''There have been five vessels with that name", which would disregard the existence of the [[Enterprise (NX-01)|NX-01 Enterprise]] or any other earlier vessel. However, the computer clearly speaks about Federation vessels named Enterprise and as the NX-01 was decommissioned before the founding of the Federation, there is no error, as the NX-01 Enterprise was solely a United Earth Starfleet vessel. (In fact, in , the Enterprise-D holodeck does recreate the NX-01 bridge.) Also, when Scott specifies the Enterprise as being the original ("No bloody A, B, C, or D"), he technically still had some clarification to do. Before the Enterprise-A, there was of course the TOS-era version of the Enterprise, but there was also the version seen in the first three Star Trek movies. While the ship had been refitted by then, the registry number was still NCC-1701, so despite the refits this was still technically the "original" Enterprise. So, how then did the computer know which of these two versions Scotty was referring to?" ...citing: "''The computer would default to the original model, just as asking the computer for an "Original '05 Mustang" would likely result in a stock model, not one with after-market modifications." I'm forced to agree that there is really no need to analyze, and for that matter, end supposed background commentary with rhetorical questions. --Alan 21:53, February 16, 2010 (UTC) :Removed the following comments: * It is interesting to note that Worf was sitting no more than five feet away from Scotty 101 years earlier, as discovered in . * Picard notes that a starship is present in the Fleet Museum. Given that the was decommissioned following the events of , it is possible that the ship Picard was referring to is the Enterprise, although, there is no evidence to suggest one way or the other. The non-canon novel ''Crossover establishes it was the with the original Enterprise bridge module that was in the museum. * No mention is made in this episode of the fact that Spock and possibly even Leonard McCoy are still alive. One could speculate that Scotty may have been interested to reconnect with them after 75 years. In the "Relics" novelization, Scotty does look up his old shipmates to see what happened to them. Beyond mentioning that death had come to a few, the novel does not specify on specific fates of the crew except for mentioning how Spock is an ambassador and that McCoy became an admiral. And while subsequent novels have shown that most of the original crew are still alive in the TNG era, with Kirk presumed dead at this point and no mention of Sulu beyond 2320 (as of this writing), the presumption that some are dead can be construed as possibly factual. * Scotty gives up on saving Franklin after noticing his pattern degraded 53%. In , Barclay is recovered from the transporter buffer after his signal resolution goes down to 50%. If the two terms are equivalent, this suggests transporter technology has improved in the intervening 75 years. :Speculation, nitpick, and "interesting notes" that need to show a deliberate reference or action.--31dot 23:39, April 9, 2010 (UTC) :::One possible in-universe explanation could be that because the ''Jenolan and Enterprise were working together, the Enterprise would have known the shield frequency of the Jenolan and would have been able to match the transporters to the same setting to penetrate them, much like the Duras sisters did with photon torpedoes in ; this technique was in fact used to beam The Doctor off the in . Another, simpler explanation is that by the time the Enterprise was ready to beam Scotty and La Forge off the Jenolan, the shields of the Jenolan had already been substantially weakened by the stress of holding the sphere's doors open, allowing for transport of the two men. '' ::Removed speculation. The only thing of note was the Star Trek Companion comment about it actually being an error. — Morder (talk) 20:08, May 14, 2010 (UTC) :::Maybe originally, but Scotty says, "It's no use. His pattern's degraded 53%. He's gone." - It degraded by 53%, it didn't degrade to 53%. It was at 47% when they found the ship and Scotty. Izkata 03:35, May 23, 2010 (UTC) Quotes It has been suggested by an anonymous editor that there are too many quotes in this article. I think they may have a point, there are nearly 4 pages of quotes by my count of it. Some of them seem particularly not memorable, such as the one about "not getting drunk unless you are willing to pay for it." --OuroborosCobra talk 21:00, March 2, 2010 (UTC) :I removed the following not-so-memorable (IMO) quotes: "Could someone... survive in a transporter buffer for seventy-five years?" "I know a way to find out." :- Riker and La Forge, before rematerializing Scotty "We're in engineering – call me Scotty." :- Scotty, to a somewhat exasperated La Forge "You know, if we can get these engines back on line, we could track them with '' their impulse ion trail." '' "Are you daft? The main drive assembly's shot, the inducers are melted, the power couplings are wrecked, we need a week just to get started! But! We don't have a week, so we've no sense crying about it. Come on, we'll see what we can do with your power converter." :- La Forge and Scotty "Never get drunk unless you're willing to pay for it – the next day." :- Scotty, just before beaming to the Jenolan "Mr. Data, we have to find some way out of here. Start scanning for another hatch." "The surface area is over ten to the sixteenth square kilometers. It will take seven hours to completely scan the surface." (The Enterprise shakes) "I will endeavor to speed up the process, sir." :- Picard and Data, while inside the sphere "You take care of yourself out there." "Aye." :- La Forge and Scotty, last lines of the episode, just as Scotty leaves the Enterprise on the shuttlecraft Goddard "You're the chief engineer of a starship, Geordi! Enjoy it while you can...because when it's gone, it's gone." :- Scotty, to La Forge before leaving the Enterprise-D :– Cleanse ( talk | ) 07:18, March 3, 2010 (UTC) The Dyson Sphere Guys, how come nobody talks about the sphere? If its a 20th century HUMAN hypothesis,but who built it? It had to be human, right? Who had the power and financials to do it and yet nobody in the history of starfleet knew about it? Either in Scotty s era or TNG era. :This isn't really the forum to speculate on the episode itself, but just because humans have a theory on Dyson Spheres doesn't mean that they built it. Aliens could have come up with similar theories independently. Scotty seemed to suggest he felt that humans didn't have the engineering skills to even design one, let alone build one. The long amount of time it likely would have taken to build one also suggests humans didn't do it. 31dot (talk) 09:12, July 5, 2013 (UTC)